In this interview, we speak to our client Professor Simon Rice who worked for the University of Sydney.
NSW Police arrested Simon Rice because he was on the sidelines of a student protest. During this interview, we hear his thoughts on human rights in Australia, the right to protest, unlawful police conduct, and what happened on the day of his arrest, and the resulting case against the NSW state.
Video transcript of Simon Rice interview:
Civil Solicitor, Brian Massone:
Professor Rice, my name is Brian Massone. I'm a Civil Solicitor here at O'Brien Criminal & Civil Solicitors. Thank you for joining me today.
Professor Simon Rice:
Very welcome, Brian.
Massone:
Professor Rice, you've been a legal academic for many years now in areas of law such as human rights and discrimination. What interests you about those particular areas?
Rice:
They are mechanisms for securing justice for individuals, differently. Human rights because it is a mechanism for controlling the power of the state and law because it's a means for people getting redress for being treated unfairly. And underlying my interest in law is its capacity to achieve social justice, so they are both means to that end.
Massone:
Your areas of expertise then have a particular relevance with the current domestic and international political climate. What do you think of the existing legal framework in Australia with respect to human rights? And specifically the peaceful right to protest?
Rice:
Well generally, it's a big question and there's a current federal inquiry but I think it's overstating it to say we have a framework. It's a patchwork piecemeal collection of initiatives by consecutive federal governments, by various state and territory governments. So what do I think? I think it's a shambles. I can't confidently point to anyone where there's a guarantee of their human rights as I can in almost every other country. And there's a whole question and story behind why we don't have the courage to actually commit to human rights protections.
Particularly on the right to protest, which is interesting, that's very much a current term. You're hard-pressed to find anywhere a documented right to protest. There's certainly a right to assembly and the right to free speech in international law, but they're limited, or they can be limited.
So back to my first point, it's very hard to reassure people that they have a right. What I think the state is doing, and I mean all the states and territories and the federal government, is limiting people's right to freedom of expression and freedom of movement in a way that starts to encroach on democratic freedoms.
The state is cracking down. Largely driven by commercial interests, they're concerned about the cost to business and the community. And that's a difficult thing to weigh up, but I don't think we've got the balance right.
Massone:
Well, on the 20th of October 2020, a time when strict covid restrictions applied, you were teaching a class at the University of Sydney relating to the law of protests and coincidentally a protest of about 200 demonstrators was taking place nearby. What happened next?
Rice:
Well, I was teaching social movements and social mobilisation as part of law reform course and protest was part of that. So you're right, coincidentally there was a protest we could go watch.
So I went along to watch what was a pretty benign student protest. They were chanting for reduced tertiary fees. The short story is that I followed the protest along with as many police as protestors, the riot squad, and horses, until the students reached an impasse and at some apparent signal, I was just watching, the police moved in. And moved in very aggressively and literally picked students up and threw them.
So I found myself watching what I thought was a gross abuse of power.
Massone:
There was a particular protester with a megaphone who the police wrestled that megaphone from and you felt a need to intervene in that, is that right?
Rice:
Yeah, certainly as a lawyer, but as a citizen I thought I couldn't stand by and watch the police, as I say, abuse their power. There were a number of armed police officers and there was a student with a placard and a megaphone, so the power imbalance was obvious.
I asked what they were doing, and I was told they weren't going to answer anything. I turned around and saw another group of police doing the same to another woman, and I said to them again "what are you doing?"
But before I finished the sentence, they had already pinned my arms back and marched me off and kicked me to the ground, so was all over quite quickly.
Massone:
And you were later issued an infringement notice and decided to contest that in court. What was your reason for that?
Rice:
As anybody does when they plead not guilty, I didn't do what they were charging me with. To be fair, it was in the intensity of covid. There was a heightened sense of public safety and security.
But I knew the covid regulations pretty well, and I knew that I hadn't participated in a gathering. I was an observer. So the short story is, not guilty because I hadn't done what they alleged I had done.
Massone:
Right, and the infringement notice was eventually withdrawn by police prosecutors. What sparked your interest in seeking some legal advice about commencing a civil action against the police?
Rice:
There were a couple of motivations.
Firstly, the abuse of power that I observed, which I was then subjected, was going unsupervised. There was nowhere to turn. The ombudsman doesn't have jurisdiction. Through Redfern Legal Centre, I made a complaint to the police about their own conduct, but they found nothing to look at there. The criminal proceedings been withdrawn, I didn't have to hold the police accountable there either.
So I felt that the police needed to be held to account, and the only thing left was civil proceedings. That was the main reason, but it's part of a larger reason that, because as I said, there's no systemic oversight of police misconduct.
Police misconduct in their ordinary duties. I could complain of corruption, this wasn't corruption, this was just police going about their ordinary duties. So I wanted to show that people who don't have resources really have to go to. You need to have my capacity to be able to hold them to account and that's not right.
Massone:
You ended up instructing O'Brien Criminal & Civil Solicitors to commence an action for assault, battery, and false imprisonment against the state of New South Wales for the actions of the particular officers involved in your arrest.
Did you feel confident that you would succeed and did you feel confident in your legal representatives?
Rice:
Well, my confidence was based entirely on the legal advice I got. As a practising lawyer, I was in the odd position of being a client and to ask questions and get advice.
So I got what I knew by recommendation and reputation was pretty sound advice from O'Brien' s about my prospects of success. So on the basis of that advice, I proceeded and then yes it all went very smoothly and we got results.
Massone:
Well as a person who successfully sued the New South Wales Police, do you think it's important for private individuals to hold public authorities to account when they impinge upon fundamental human rights?
Rice:
Yes it's important to hold account. I don't want to burden oppressed individuals with that. What happened to me was remarkable to my peers only because it doesn't really happen to me and my peers.
It happens to people every day and they don't have the capacity to hold account. So yes it's desirable that authorities are subject to a much stricter regime of oversight. I don't think it's desirable that the only way of doing it is to expect the oppressed individuals to pursue it.
Massone:
Well, Professor Simon Rice University of Sydney lecturer and professor and former client of O'Brien Criminal & Civil Solicitors. Thank you very much for joining me today.
Rice:
You're welcome. Thank you very much.
