In this episode of the Sustainable Finance Guernsey podcast, host Rosie Allsopp speaks with Emma Cherniavsky, CEO of UK for UNHCR (The UN Refugee Agency), and Siddhartha Sinha, Senior Innovative Finance Officer at UNHCR, about the current global refugee crisis, the role of UNHCR, and innovative financial solutions to support refugees. They discuss the increasing number of displaced individuals, the challenges faced by host countries, and the importance of public-private partnerships in addressing these issues.
Transcript:
Rosie (00:02.318)
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Sustainable Finance Guernsey podcast, which is rated one of the top 10 most useful sustainable finance podcasts by Green Finance Guide.
Emma Cherniavsky (00:13.363)
Yes, thank you.
Rosie (00:30.562)
Guernsey is one of the jurisdictions leading the way in green and sustainable finance. And as part of this podcast series, we speak to and learn from some of the leading global figures in the field. My name is Rosie Allsopp. I'm Communications Director at Guernsey Finance. We are the island's promotional agency for the financial services sector. Today on World Refugee Day, I am delighted to be speaking with Emma Cherniavsky, who is Chief Executive Officer at UK for UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency, and Siddhartha Sinha, Senior Innovative Finance Officer at UNHCR.
Rosie (01:19.2)
As the founding chief executive of UK for UNHCR, leads the team to deliver all UK private sector partnership and engagement activities in support of the charity's global relief programmes. This includes national fundraising appeals, corporate and foundation partnerships and public solidarity campaigns. During Emma's tenure and thanks to the generosity of the charity's partners and donors, UK for UNHCR has funded more than £100 million worth of relief for refugees and displaced people. And that includes emergency protection, cash assistance, shelter, healthcare, education and livelihoods. This directly supports people who have been displaced by conflicts in areas including Ukraine, Syria, Sudan and Yemen, as well as ongoing humanitarian crises in areas such as Afghanistan, Myanmar and the Horn of Africa.
Siddhartha's background is in economics and investment with a degree in economics from Harvard University and over a decade working at Deutsche Bank in London and New York where he was director and head of Global Investment Solutions Americas. Now living in Geneva, Siddhartha brings his expertise in international funding and structuring solutions to the UNHCR. Today, we will be discussing how the changing landscape for refugees and the innovative finance solutions that UNHCR is leading to get relief to where it's really needed the most. Can I just say thank you to you both for joining me on the podcast today. It's such a pleasure to have you on.
Emma Cherniavsky (03:04.937)
Thank for having us.
Siddhartha Sinha (03:06.201)
Thank you.
Rosie (03:07.096)
Thank you. So to start, can you both introduce yourselves a little bit and share a bit about your professional background and your journey to working with the UNHCR? Emma, let's start with you.
Emma Cherniavsky (03:20.777)
Thank you. Thank you so much, Rosie, for having us today. So I came to UK for UNHCR, which is the national charity partner for the UN Refugee Agency in the UK about five years ago. And previously, I had a background in fundraising and management roles, I worked at the Liberal Democrats, the UK political party for about six years. And then before that, for many years with Human Rights Watch which is one of the leading human rights organisations globally and also with the International Crisis Group, which works in the field of conflict resolution and peace building.
Rosie (04:02.23)
Siddhartha, Thank you for that. Siddhartha, how about you?
Siddhartha Sinha (04:05.783)
Hi, Rosie and thanks again for having us on. So I, as your introduction very kindly noted, I was a banker for my whole career before I joined UNHCR about five years ago. And many of your listeners will already be aware of it. Deutsche Bank is one of the largest investment banks in the world. But I'd always had an interest in development and humanitarian issues and had a long standing interest in trying to use my experience, hopefully, where it can have the greatest impact.
I grew up in India, I grew up in Calcutta, which is a very, very dense and developing city. And you don't grow up in a city like that without having a very strong sense of how done right the world of finance or the world of development interventions can have a huge impact. And then Bengal itself, of course, has a long history with refugees going back to not just the partition, but more recently, the 71 Bangladesh war. So you just grew up with a very a very, I think, live sense of how these situations play out on the ground and hopefully how you can help given your experience, so when I learned UNHCR was trying to connect to the broader finance more broadly to support its mission of helping refugees, I think I was very inspired and it felt like the right opportunity to make the shift.
Rosie (05:25.24)
So let's set the scene a little bit. Emma, can you help us understand the current global landscape for refugees and displaced people? What's the role of UNHCR in that context today?
Emma Cherniavsky (05:39.945)
So we are living in a time where the global displacement crisis is really accelerating. So today there are over 120 million people around the world who've been forcibly displaced due to war, persecution, and conflict. And that's a number that's doubled in about the last decade. So it is very much of an accelerating crisis. And some of the largest refugee situations around the world. Many of your audience will be familiar with Ukraine, Sudan, the Syrian war which broke out 14 years ago. Still now the Syrian population is one of the largest displaced populations in the world. So that number 120 million sounds enormous and just to give a sense that's one in 67 people in the world is a refugee. So if you think about the population of Guernsey, which I think is just under 67,000, that means that on your island, about a thousand people would be classed as refugees if you took that as a proportion of the world's refugees. And also to say that many refugees are very vulnerable and when you are forced to flee your home,
Emma Cherniavsky (07:01.545)
You lose everything. You lose your, often you're traveling without papers. You don't have anything from your home to bring with you. You have very limited financial means. And refugees globally, children account for about 30 % of the population. But among the refugee population, 40 % are children. And so you often have vulnerable older people, women, children who need that assistance and that protection in that time where they're forced to flee their homes. The other thing that's very important, I think, to understand is that 70 % of refugees live in lesser developed countries, often in those countries that neighbour conflicts. For example, thinking about Syria, many Syrian refugees live in Turkey, live in Jordan, live in Lebanon.
And so just understanding that, that responsibility to look after refugees falls very heavily on those lesser developed countries. And so the role that UNHCR can play governments and business in supporting those lesser developed countries, those host countries to be able to provide a supportive and sustainable economy and ecosystem and society for those refugees.
Rosie (08:30.542)
Thank you for that. Now the theme for this year's World Refugee Day is Fragments of Hope. Siddhartha, what does that mean to you personally and professionally?
Siddhartha Sinha (08:43.897)
Thank you, Rosie. think I'm delighted to have you ask that question because when I learned about the theme myself, it's a reference to kintsugi, which is the Japanese art of repairing broken pottery or pottery shards using gold or silver lacquer. So instead of discarding those shards or pretending that the cracks don't exist by using, for instance, an invisible type of glue.
You're instead highlighting these cracks in a way and in fact you're converting them into these extraordinary and absolutely. So I just found it such a wonderful image and also a metaphor. I think as Emma was just speaking to, I think there are extraordinary and particular hardships that are often hidden to the rest of us that refugees face.
Rosie (09:17.164)
making it something really beautiful.
Siddhartha Sinha (09:34.447)
But these challenges don't need to be permanent. They don't need to be hidden. I think we can, if all of us are committed, we can acknowledge these hardships, but also hopefully find a way of overcoming them and finding other opportunities along the way. So I personally just found it a very beautiful image.
Rosie (09:51.948)
And Emma, how is UNHCR reflecting this message in its work?
Emma Cherniavsky (09:58.131)
So this tea set and this idea of pulling together fragments of hope, first of all, the refugees who will be working with us are from Ukraine, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Sudan. And we really hope that this tea set that we will build is going to be a powerful symbol of both the creativity and the resilience of refugees who are rebuilding their lives after being forced to flee. I guess you could say that UNHCR is the glue, the golden glue, and we try in our work to be that glue that helps refugee families and communities rebuild their lives. And that's ranging from when an emergency breaks out, we are on the ground providing emergency assistance, providing shelter, providing essentials to families. There's also a protection piece around registration, documents, referring people for services, ensuring that they're able to access that protection and those services in their new country. And then finally, being there for the long term. So that glue really persisting and helping refugees rebuild their lives through education, through livelihoods, through providing healthcare. And just to say that everyone can be part of this campaign and that by partnering with UNHCR, by volunteering in your community to help refugees, speaking out against misinformation, expressing your solidarity with refugees, those are all things that you can do to be part of this precious gold of rebuilding and helping refugees rebuild their lives.
Rosie (11:52.75)
That's really, really powerful. So Emma, what we're seeing at the moment is a troubling trend of decreasing government funding alongside an increasing number of refugees and needs. Could you maybe walk us through the macroeconomic and geopolitical factors that are driving this challenge?
Emma Cherniavsky (12:14.729)
So I think that acceleration of displacement is really due to a confluence of many factors. One is there are now more conflicts, active conflicts in the world, I think some 120 at the latest measurement, active conflicts in the world. The other thing that's happening is that many of those conflicts are persisting.
They are enduring and the number of years that refugees are on average displaced from their homes and unable to return because it isn't safe for them to do so, that number is also growing over time. So thirdly, we see climate change, which is both driving displacement and at the same time making it more difficult for refugees who are displaced and who are trying to rebuild their lives in a new country or in a different part of their own country as internally displaced, they are impacted by climate change. And I think it's some 75 or 80 % of refugees who live in countries that are at extreme or high risk of climate disaster. And so that climate change impact again is disproportionately impacting refugees.
And so we find that there are many more refugees, many more internally displaced within certain countries. And at the same time, I think post COVID, many governments are cutting their foreign aid and their humanitarian programs. And so we're really faced with a challenge of greater need and less government funding.
So what we're really working on and what Siddhartha and his team are working on is leaning into other solutions. And here the private sector and business can play such an important role in providing not only financing and funding, but also expertise and helping UNHCR find new ways and sustainable ways.
Emma Cherniavsky (14:28.701)
to support refugees and very importantly, the host countries that they live in to be able to provide jobs, provide education and really include those refugee populations. I think long-term, we have to be optimistic about the future. think looking at the demographics of the part of the world that we live in, Europe, many of the advanced economies have aging populations, many businesses have skills shortages.
And I think refugees represent a huge potential pool of talent that can be tapped into to enable a growing economy, to fill those skills shortages. So I think we have to think about those solutions and those ways to really think about the long-term resilience and rebuilding lives for refugees.
Rosie (15:19.182)
Yeah, I think that's the, I love your optimism. Siddhartha what are some of the biggest hurdles in ensuring that funds reach the greatest areas of need and what financial mechanisms are currently in place or needed do you think to improve this?
Siddhartha Sinha (15:21.167)
Thanks.
Siddhartha Sinha (15:34.959)
Yeah, thanks very much for the question, Rosie. So I mean, I think one way to maybe cut through some of the complexity of the reality that, of course, every refugee situation is unique and the responses can be varied, is to recognise that there are very broadly speaking two types of situations we're dealing with. The first is that same emergency response, which includes not just wars and conflicts, but also often natural disasters that force people from their homes.
And there what we're trying to do is figure out how do we have financial tools that disperse funding more quickly so that your response is more quick, that people can rebuild their lives more quickly and mitigate some of the long-term damage that might otherwise result. And so there you can imagine financial tools like insurance, for instance, that can spread the risk, that can allow a quicker response, a more efficient and a more effective response.
And then the second type of situation is probably, you what we often call protracted displacement. Refugees have been forced from their home, but now they are, they've been away for quite some time. They are living either in their communities or they're resettled. And there what we're trying to find is how do we make sure they have access to the same investments as the rest of us? Do they have access to business loans to start a business? Do they have access to health, education, social services, infrastructure, et cetera?
And that's where it gives us a bit of a frame to think about where these challenges come in, because there are, of course, the normal challenges that might take place when you're investing in a developing country. As I mentioned, most refugees find themselves often just adjacent to the country they fled from. And so there you have some of the normal challenges of just financial risk in an economy that might be more volatile, or you might have operating risks there, et cetera. But those are compounded by the fragility
of the refugee specific situation and the specific situations that refugees find themselves. So the fragility means that, of course, your let's say financial risk is a bit higher or you may have less visibility into the sustainability of the situation or the permanence of the situation. But of course, refugees have very specific issues. mean, as Emma was mentioning, you often don't come with your papers. You may not be legally included in the country you find yourself in. You may not have access to a bank account. So you can't borrow money.
Siddhartha Sinha (17:56.003)
You may be living in a part of the country which is under invested in terms of energy infrastructure, et cetera. So part of what I think we at UNHCR are focused on is just to make the bridges that allow normal finance to circumvent or to overcome these issues that would otherwise be obstacles. Can we make data available that indicates that this is an area you can invest in, that there's a return to investing in?
I think this is where finance has quite a big role to play because we're used to managing risks all the time. It's just you have to be able to identify it, maybe measure it, and then come up with a way to overcome it. Emma and her team and other teams around the world, the humanitarian sector has traditionally used grants in one way, which is for direct response, which is very appropriate given the severity of the issues we're talking about.
But can we start to maybe use grants in a different way to reduce risks that pull in other types of investment or capital, since these risks are often quite specific? Can I make a business case more attractive to a business? Can I make data available that allows somebody to come into a refugee camp or a settlement? So I think those are some of the features we're working on to make links to the broader community.
Rosie (19:13.56)
That sounds really exciting. So, Siddhartha can you share some examples of how public-private partnerships or philanthropic investment or other innovative funding avenues are being used to support refugee initiatives?
Siddhartha Sinha (19:35.193)
Thank you. I'll speak to one which is particularly dear to my heart because I think it's quite innovative and we've been working on it for a few years now. But it's something we call the Refugee Environmental Protection Fund Initiative or the REAP Fund Initiative for short. This is something that aims to address a very long-standing challenge in refugee settings, which is linked to the environment, which is that when there's a surge of displacement, quite frequently there's associated deforestation because actually the only source of cooking fuel that refugees have access to is from the forest around them. And so you can imagine they're cutting trees to source firewood just to cook and obviously to stay alive. And in the absence of any other solutions, that perimeter of deforestation can widen very quickly because of course you're sometimes talking about tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people having been displaced. And then suddenly you have cascading social challenges. You have particularly women and girls who have to source firewood facing the risk of violence as they travel further to collect that firewood. You have health challenges from cooking with firewood and enclosed spaces. You, of course, the risk of conflict with the host community, which is, of course, already dealing with an influx of refugees and suddenly has to deal with environmental resources being depleted as well. So it's quite well understood, unfortunately, and historically humanitarian actors have tried to address this by reforesting or providing cleaner cooking energy solutions, but we've been doing it using grant funding, which is of course scarce. It's short term. It just can't go far enough. And so what we've done is to try to connect these types of projects, reforestation, clean cooking initiatives that reduce the demand for firewood to the global carbon markets, which now give of course effectively a monetary value and a benefit to projects that are truly carbon positive in terms of reforestation or the reduction in the use of firewood and done on a large enough scale and done on a a stringent enough basis, suddenly you have access to a completely new source of financing that can really transform the impact of these projects and from our perspective really transform the social impacts of these projects. You have healthier lives, more social cohesion, less gender-based violence. But of course the proof's in the pudding and this is where the partnerships come in. So we-
Siddhartha Sinha (21:52.447)
we did a lot of early work together with some philanthropic donors to echo an earlier point to basically generate the data. Is it possible to do these projects on the scale, technically, legally, financially, et cetera? Once you've done that, we're actually now in the middle of a process where we're working with project developers from the private sector who are part of essentially a procurement process where they're going to come in and develop these projects in Rwanda and Uganda in the first instance.
And then in the next phase, we'll be working with essentially companies who will be buying these carbon credits or financial institutions will be providing financing for the upfront costs of these projects. So suddenly you've got this beautiful chain where you've got a little bit of philanthropic money that then catalyzes private sector coming in, which then is financed by companies and financial institutions. And they're all working on projects together with the refugees and host communities on the ground who are really the ultimate beneficiaries. So again, hopefully, gives you a bit of a taste of how new solutions can really transform impact.
Rosie (22:49.368)
Yeah, very much so. Could you highlight maybe a few specific projects where funding's made a tangible impact?
Siddhartha Sinha (22:57.239)
Absolutely. So I think in addition to some of the, I'll pick a different example just to maybe draw it out. I think particularly in the renewable energy transition is very important to us because frequently refugees find themselves often operating and find themselves in remote locations that are often unconnected to any electrical grid. These are again areas by definition that are often very under invested from an infrastructure perspective. So historically, and still the case, most of the energy that's provided tends to be from these huge diesel generators. That's of course terrible from a climate perspective, but it's also actually very inefficient financially. And you can imagine having to truck fuel across the desert to get to a camp in a remote location in Sudan, for instance, which also has security implications as you're trying to protect these sources of fuel.
So over the last few years, we've been working to essentially transition our energy infrastructure from diesel to solar when that's possible. That requires us to come up with a few financial mechanisms to essentially de-risk these investments in these locations, because of course you can imagine as a company or a financier, you think to yourself, it's an installation in middle of nowhere. Maybe there's some conflict risk. So we work with some donors to try to de-risk those. That then give us access to very high quality, low cost renewable energy from the private sector. And that, of course, then comes with investments in the communities themselves, because you're talking about local companies, local jobs, investments in infrastructure in a place that often has lacked that. So we suddenly become an anchor customer that hopefully spurs further development. So that's something that's we're already rolling out across the world, starting in sub-Saharan Africa, but increasingly in the Middle East and other locations in which we operate.
Rosie (24:48.032)
That sounds really exciting. Emma, could you share some projects that you've seen making an impact?
Emma Cherniavsky (24:54.825)
Well, I was thinking about this and for me, one of the programs that we have that is incredibly impactful is called the DAFI Scholarship and it enables refugees to attend university. So these are refugees who've managed to complete their secondary education and go on to compete to win a scholarship to attend university in their host country.
So for example, I was thinking about a young woman I met when I was in Kenya about 18 months ago. Her name is Monica. She's originally from South Sudan and she grew up in Kakuma refugee camp, which is one of the largest refugee camps in the world with some 300,000 refugees there from many African countries, including South Sudan. And Monica, grew up and like many young women, her secondary education was not easy to complete in the sense that there were pressures from her family to have an early marriage, to contribute financially to the family. But she did manage to fight to complete her education and she won a scholarship to the University of Nairobi and she studied law and went on to become the first person to be elected student president with a refugee background. And Monica at the university was an incredible advocate for the rights of refugees, for their equal treatment on campus and with other students and helping sensitize other students to the lives of refugees and their experiences.
Emma Cherniavsky (26:47.611)
And Monica as a result of her advocacy and just her extraordinary leadership abilities, was invited to the Global Refugee Forum in Geneva, which is a major gathering of governments and civil society and business to talk about refugee and humanitarian issues every four years. And so in 2023, Monica came to Geneva and spoke at the Global Refugee Forum.
And then last year she was invited to speak at the UN General Assembly in New York and she's become a global figure and a real inspiration for refugees, for young women to really think about their rights and be inspired to stand up for themselves. And I think the power of individuals is very important to remember and that...
when it comes to sustainability, when it comes to economic progress, when it comes to gender rights, those individual leaders can play such an enormous role in engaging the public and in helping mobilize that support which will drive governments and drive business to be more philanthropic, to be more engaged in supporting refugees. So I think that program and the DAFI scholarship that allows those refugees that have that talent to complete their education and go on to play leading roles in their communities. And we find many DAFI scholars, and I've been in Jordan, I've been in Lebanon, and I've been in number of other countries meeting DAFI scholars, and many of them choose professionally roles where they go back to their communities and they contribute as doctors, as leaders, as contributors. And it's incredibly important, I think, to have those role models, those community leaders to help lift refugees and really serve as our future leaders.
Rosie (29:00.44)
That's just amazing. Well done, Monica and the DAFI scholarship, obviously, as well. That's just such a powerful story. I wanted to talk a little bit about the UK for UNHCR annual report and strategy now, if I may. The latest report offers a wealth of data and insights. Emma, could you share some key facts or trends that stood out to you?
Emma Cherniavsky (29:29.523)
So thank you for that question. Our charity's now just five years old, so it's been quite a good time for us to reflect on the sort of progress that we've made and what we've learned along the way. And I think we're most proud of the generosity of our partners and our donors having enabled 100 million of funding to go to UNHCR to fund programs, and that has delivered real impact and I want to thank everyone who has been part of that. I think we've seen also the incredible importance of that sustained support. So what often happens for a humanitarian charity like ours is during certain moments like the war in Ukraine when that broke out and it was such an enormous shock and everyone, so many people wanted to engage and generously donated. We've seen engagement with other emergencies like Sudan and Afghanistan. But outside of those emergencies, there are many programs like the programs that Siddhartha was describing that rely on sustainable finance and being able to deliver those outcomes, being on the ground when emergencies break out.
UNHCR is committed that within 72 hours of any emergency breaking out, crisis requiring assistance, we can be on the ground within 72 hours anywhere in the world. And in order to do that, we have all these logistical arrangements that have to be in place. We have warehouses in different locations across the world. We have transportation arrangements. We have staff who are ready to be called up at a moment's notice. And all of that takes resources to make possible. At the same time, when you're delivering education, when you're delivering health outcomes, when you're delivering livelihoods, that sustainable income to make those programs possible year after year is incredibly important. having those multi-year commitments from partners, having those regular donors, and we have thousands of donors across the UK who are part of our regular giving program and really enabling refugees
Emma Cherniavsky (31:50.323)
to rebuild their lives sustainably and not just when a big emergency breaks out. And of course, that emergency support is important too, but so equally is that regular giving. I wanted to also touch on the impact that partners who have shared with us not only their funding, but also their expertise and their influence. And Siddhartha mentioned the example of insurance. There's also a...
a technology company called ARM that we partner with in the UK who have shared their expertise with our innovation unit and with some of the refugee led organisations that we're collaborating with on the ground. And that's a really important aspect of UNHCR's work. A lot of what we do is delivered by funding and partnering with local organisations on the ground. And again, that's very important to sustainability and to being able to ensure that that work carries on and that capacity carries on into the future. Finally, if I may, just the power of solidarity is the final lesson, I think, to really that we've drawn on in our first five years. We've been fortunate to partner with a couple of very creative and really interesting art projects that have drawn in a lot of Londoners to come and learn about the refugee experience and understand refugee stories and be inspired by them. And I think the power of, we have at the moment a blue ribbon campaign and Rosie, I see you're wearing yours. Thank you. And you can go to our website and sign up to receive a ribbon and to support our charity and help support refugees. And by wearing the blue ribbon, you can talk to your friends and in your community about refugees and it enables a great conversation and to just express solidarity with refugees.
Rosie (33:50.926)
Sorry about this, Ruth will edit out all of my coughing by the way. Sorry about that. Now it's so interesting because I got this ribbon when you guys came over in May. You visited Guernsey and were guest speakers at an event that was staged by Guernsey's Overseas Aid and Development Commission and the Channel Islands Occupation Society.
and that was ahead of the 80th anniversary of Guernsey's liberation in the Second World War. Now, for those who aren't aware, the Channel Islands were the only British territory that was under German occupation in that war. And between the 19th and 21st of June in 1940, around 25,000 people were evacuated from the Channel Islands, many of them who were children who would be separated from their parents for up to five years. Emma and Siddhartha, what were your impressions of the islands engagement with refugee and evacuee issues? Siddhartha, can I ask that one to you first?
Siddhartha Sinha (35:00.993)
Yeah, thank you. I think I was struck maybe just as you mentioned, just by the history of the islands and the level of solidarity that exists. think that solidarity is just so critical. No one chooses to become a refugee and unfortunately you don't know when it'll happen and you don't know when you will be forced to rely upon the support of strangers. And when that does happen, we do rely on each other to to create the conditions to rebuild our lives and to go back home if that's possible. And I was just so struck and in a sense so grateful that I think Guernsey and the Channel Islands keep that alive and you really feel it, through the events we were part of, but also the people we spoke to. So I think I will just echo that. I just found that so striking and also just so important.
Rosie (35:53.23)
And Emma, how about you?
Emma Cherniavsky (35:56.381)
Well, Rosie, I was just getting a bit emotional remembering the evening, the event that you referenced that was sponsored also by the Guernsey Islands, sorry, the Channel Islands Occupation Society. On that evening, we heard from one of the evacuees who was a young girl when she left the island just before the war or just before the occupation. And I think
hearing her experience and what she felt in those moments, it really hit home for me that that experience of forced displacement, of the confusion in that moment, the chaos, the trauma of family separation and what she experienced in that moment of being separated from her parents and arriving in the UK, not knowing anyone.
Being sent on a train, she'd never been on a train before in her life and how scary that would be if you were a young child going to live with a family that she didn't know and I think it was quite a difficult experience for her. And that experience of displacement is the same today. 80 years later, that experience, know, those challenges,
and what you experience in that moment of fleeing your home, and especially if you experience family separation, it's incredibly traumatic. And so Just feeling that sense of history, that understanding that Guernsey is a place where people really understand that experience of forced displacement and the solidarity that was expressed, the compassion, and I think the way that that's been, that legacy has been honored by the Overseas Aid Commission with their commitment to supporting humanitarian organisations like UNHCR who work with refugees, who work with people around the world who are in need of humanitarian assistance. That's very powerful. And I really - so much solidarity and generosity was...
Emma Cherniavsky (38:18.845)
was shared by everyone that we met on the island and that openness to understanding that experience. I think Guernsey is quite an exceptional place because when you go around the island and you see the World War II bunkers and you see the history, the museums and the sort of exhibits and the public exhibits that are there, and we're part of the 80th anniversary, it's a very powerful reminder. It's important for us, the younger generations, to understand that this kind of thing is still going on all around the world and we can play our part in helping and being part of the solution.
Rosie (38:50.958)
I think you're so right. Yeah, I could not agree more. Siddhartha did you have any standout moments or stories from your time in Guernsey?
Siddhartha Sinha (39:01.615)
Yeah, I'm going to pick something that at the risk of being too much of a banker, I think I was very struck by just how closely and collaboratively people seem to sort of know each other from different walks of life. I mean, we were at the reception the day after- everyone knows everyone. But it really makes a difference because of course, you work on anything sufficiently complex and you need
Rosie (39:19.562)
Everyone knows everyone.
Siddhartha Sinha (39:30.259)
We were talking about insurance solutions and of course, Guernsey is a big centre for insurance. And then you've got folks who take the risk and folks who construct the solution and you've got the regulator who understands it and you've got people who understand the financial risk and they know each other and that really makes a difference. And I worked in London and I worked in New York and you have access aspects of that, of course. These are all sophisticated financial centeres. But I feel like in Guernsey, in a way, the scale allows people to really know each other and work very collaboratively together which is just hugely beneficial, think, for the island, but also for those of us who interact with it through our work and through its philanthropy. So I must say, I found that quite striking and interesting.
Rosie (40:13.088)
It's great to hear you say that. It's something that we're pretty proud of over here. Now, Emma and Siddhartha as an international finance centre, how do you think Guernsey might contribute to global refugee support, whether that's through innovative financing mechanisms or government led overseas aid? I'm going to ask actually, Siddhartha I'll go with you first, please.
Siddhartha Sinha (40:38.159)
Sure, thank you. So I think Guernsey's unique position is absolutely critical because particularly in our work, the combination of aid and financial expertise is just so very important. We know we can't solve these challenges with aid alone and it's why we need to bring in elements of sustainable finance and investment, enable self-sufficiency, enable self-reliance to hopefully reduce the demand on humanitarian resources.
At the same time, know that refugee settings have particular risks and challenges and that's where the aid is really so critical. So you need aid to stabilise the situation and then set the scene for larger scale sustainable investment. And it's really, really important to have those two pieces working hand in hand. And I think that's where Guernsey has a unique capacity and also a role to play. And I think it's also why we're so grateful to have the relationship we do with not just the Overseas Aid and Development Commission, but also with the philanthropic giving more broadly. And then I think increasingly with the financial and technical sectors. So I think it really fits very well together and is very much in the spirit of where the sector needs to go as a whole.
Rosie (41:48.846)
Thank you and Emma?
Emma Cherniavsky (41:51.121)
Very much to echo what Siddhartha said and just to explain that we are a young charity and we are just now building our relationships on the island and our understanding of the institutions, the companies and the individuals who might be interested in engaging with us. So we are very open and welcome hearing from any individual or any institution or business that might be interested in learning more about our programs and how they might be able to work with us to help deliver impact for refugees around the world.
Rosie (42:33.806)
Thank you. This time has flown and that's all we have time for today, I'm afraid. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast, Siddhartha and Emma. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you with us. You can find the link to the UK for UNHCR in today's show notes. And I'd also like to say thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to find out more about what Guernsey has to offer, you can visit our website. That's guernseyfinance.com.
And if you'd like to know more about Guernsey's success in other financial sectors, you can tune into our sister channel, the Guernsey Finance Podcast. We have quite a selection of interviews and panel discussions from previous interviews, and you can check those out by searching for Sustainable Finance Guernsey wherever you get your podcasts. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe so that you don't miss the next one. And if you have thoughts about today's show, get in touch, leave us a review, leave us a comment. We always love to hear your feedback and we'll be back very soon with another episode of the Sustainable Finance Guernsey podcast.
For more information about Guernsey's finance industry please visit www.weareguernsey.com.
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