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Sally Glarvey: Hi, everybody. I'm Sally Glarvey and I'm
Head of DE&I and Wellbeing here at Gowling. And I'm
delighted to be here today speaking with Kavita Singh as part of
our South Asian Heritage Month celebration. This is the third year
celebrating South Asian Heritage Month, which seeks to commemorate,
mark and celebrate South Asian culture, the history and
community.
One element of this for us as a firm is to celebrate and showcase
role models to really highlight the importance of diversity and
inclusion. And so that is why Kavita has very kindly agreed to come
and speak with us today. Kavita is a general counsel,
internationally experienced corporate lawyer of 32 years, with deep
experience of building, managing, transforming and leading
multi-jurisdictional legal teams within listed multinational
corporations across the energy and healthcare sectors. And in
addition to this, she has also served on the boards of various
organisations across industries.
So, thank you, Kavita, for joining us today, and we're really
looking forward to hearing more about you, your career and your
experiences.
So, I thought it would be good to start today, straight off, with
finding out a little more about yourself, about you, I wondered if
you could give us a brief introduction, and an overview of your
career so far, to begin with.
Kavita Singh: Sure, absolutely. And thank you for having me, Sally. And thanks for facilitating these meaningful dialogues around DE&I and really shining a spotlight on this area. So, it's a pleasure to speak with you.
So, in terms of my story professionally, I've been a lawyer
for over 30 years. I read law at Cambridge University in the 80s
and qualified as a solicitor in England and then Hong Kong in the
early 90s. I spent the initial six years of my career at an
international law firm before moving in-house, and throughout my
career I've been really lucky to have had the opportunity to
live in various countries, work across continents, and experience
truly multicultural environments. Substantively, I'd say my
in-house career has been with, UK FTSE-listed plcs, as well as
various New York-listed Fortune 500 global corporations.
And in my role as general counsel or chief legal officer in various
industries, my job has principally involved leading international
in-house legal departments and multidisciplinary teams in multiple
jurisdictions. So across the EMEA, Asia Pacific and LATAM. And as
part of holding the chief legal officer role, I've also held
board positions within the company that I've worked for and
I've been part of the C-suite or the Executive Leadership team,
which provides governance, strategy and leadership for
international operations.
And finally, outside of the law, I've held various net or
non-executive board positions in sport, one within the foundation
of the profession, football club within the English Football
League, and also a board position with a professional cricket club.
In the education sector, I've served on the board of leading
Russell Group Invest in the UK. And you know, from a personal
perspective, I'm of Indian heritage. I'm the daughter of
immigrants who came to the United Kingdom from India in the 1960s,
and I was born and raised in Yorkshire in the UK. And I'm a
very proud member of our country's BAM community.
Sally: Fabulous. I mean, what a career so far.
There is just so much there isn't there to talk about, and such
opportunity about internationally. I think that there's just so
much opportunity that you've had already with an international
lens.
So, you're obviously seeing I can imagine so many different
cultures, and ways of life out there. So that's been
fabulous.
Kavita: Absolutely.
Sally: So that brings me probably nicely onto the
next question actually. So, you started your legal career at
Clifford Chance and worked across a variety of different
geographies and have continued to work internationally. How do you
think that has helped you develop, in your career? And what did you
learn from those experiences in terms of international?
Kavita: Yeah, sure. I mean, it's helped a
great deal. I'd say that Clifford Chance gave me the best
possible start in my career because, you know, like Gowling,
it's a truly global cross-border organisation. And as part of
your job every day, you know, you're lucky enough to have the
opportunity to gain first hand experience of various legal systems
across the world, various client types and transaction types. But,
you know, most importantly, you get experience and exposure to a
truly global set of people based personally, professionally and
I've always been really curious and fascinated by the variety
of cultures across the world, which I've really enjoyed
learning from, whilst, of course, being very proud and true to my
own culture.
But I think what really accelerated my learning and development to
my commercial and cultural awareness was the opportunity to go on
various client secondments and operating different environments,
and also to work in various offices across the world. And I would
highly recommend those opportunities to any lawyers they become
available to you, because there's really no better way to
develop your cultural intelligence other than sort of via hands on
and a deep immersion in different environments, and really taking
yourself out of your comfort zone and testing yourself and getting
to know yourself in different, diverse environments and I'm
firmly of the belief that in our profession technical excellence is
just the starting point. It is not in itself enough. And what truly
differentiates an individual is that emotional intelligence,
cultural intelligence and their ability to modify delivery styles
depending on the regions, depending on your circumstances. And I
think truly it's those soft skills which allow you to read the
room, understand the concerns and drivers in the minds of our
counterparts. And those are the skills that you know, your
approach, your cultural understanding, your commercial
understanding, I think really differentiate and are the keys to
success.
Sally: Yeah, I mean, fabulous. I couldn't
agree more. I think that we're seeing something very similar
now, especially in the DE&I team working more closely with our
counterparts in Canada and obviously in Germany. And like you say,
to really sort of live and breathe it and to understand it,
it's it's great to be there as well, trying to try and
understand how they were.
I think that leads really nicely again, as if by magic, onto the
next question actually, which is around obviously D&I. So,
D&I is a cornerstone of what we do at Gowling, and I'd like
to hear your perspectives, as a GC, predominantly, on what you
consider when instructing firms in terms of D&I,
what are the thoughts that you have? And, how do you start where do
you even begin?
Kavita: D&I is really important to us, and as
a general counsel, I'm really happy to share a client's
perspective about why diversity is so important. First, within our
own in-house legal teams, and equally, because we view you, our
outside counsel as an extension of our own in-house legal teams.
Why your diversity is equally of critical importance to us. And as
buyers of legal services, which we are, we do try to deploy our
legal budget and use our purchasing power to further the EDI
agenda, where we can.
And I'd say that's sort of three key reasons why we
care. And first, purely selfishly, is we want the best possible
advice. That's out there. And to any panel law firm, like I
say, technical expertise - that's just the starting point.
It's a basic expectation. And it's not in itself enough.
What we need is creative, fresh, innovative solutions to complex
problems. We need diverse thinking, less groupthink, a plurality of
opinions and perspectives around the table. And diversity is the
real value proposition, and it's a differentiator that brings,
us the required breadth and depth of perspectives which enable us
to make the best judgement calls in. It's really having access
to that multitude of lived experiences,
which allows the firm to create a more personalised and intensive
client service.
And I'd say certainly that the collective intelligence of,
cultural agility that a diverse advisory team brings really
enhances our offering and our approach to business. And it helps us
be more effective at reading and understanding stakeholder concerns
in a variety of environments, whether that's, sitting across
the table, negotiating and emanating or just setting out litigation
strategy, settlement, strategy for a particular transaction.
So diverse teams, I think, are what give us the edge. And in terms
of relationship building, I think the client law firm experience is
often about fetes. And, can start with the potential clients first
interaction with your firm, even with your marketing content. And
often it's sort of an intuitive call. And I think that fielding
a diverse team can definitely help a client feel more orientated
towards you. And because, client engagement is fundamentally
underpinned by trust and alignment values, does definitely help
achieve that trusted advisor status, where the client is eventually
willing to bring you into that inner circle, and perhaps then,
involve you in more strategic planning, in-house concerns rather
than pure execution.
A couple of other points, I'd say why we can why it's
important is to serve effectively. We need to be a true reflection
of our clients and customers. And that's the same in every
field. So our profession has to be reflective, a wider society
where to remain truly relevant and effective. And we need as many
voices, backgrounds, perspectives as possible to best serve our
communities and be good lawyers, so that's fundamental to that.
I think it's important.
And I suppose the last point that's certainly important to
me is as a recruiter and a as lawyers into our teams, is that we
want to attract and retain the best talent. And as an international
legal team, diversity is a key employer value proposition, and
having a diverse team allows us to appeal to the widest talent pool
of potential candidates and to attract and retain the best legal
professionals in every market. We're very deliberate about
nurturing a truly diverse talent pipeline for that reason. And
seeing as, significant talent source for in-house departments, it
is you. It's external lawyers. So it that makes complete sense
for us to collaborate with law firms and, you know, encourage the
improvement of in this space within our preferred panel law
firms.
Sally: Fabulous. Thank you so much. And such
really good main points there. So, another question then we a
slightly sort of a separate to the external, side of the, the law
firm. So, you've been a non-executive director, on the board of
Yorkshire County Cricket Club, the largest cricket club in the
world, and as a board trustee of Huddersfield Town FC Foundation as
well. So, those are two very huge clubs. Why is diversity at board
level so important, do you think? What makes it so important and
why do we need to be to be diverse on these boards?
Kavita: That's a great question. It's
really important. I mean, I think there is a plethora of
evidence
which shows that organisations with diverse leadership and more
profitable, they simply do better.
They fare better commercially than those where there's a lack
of diversity of thought and representation, and diverse boards
better represent the diversity of customer and stakeholder
interests. And I actually believe there's still a significant
underrepresentation of women on boards and diverse board
representation generally. I feel it should remain an absolute
priority that these gaps are addressed both across the industry,
the corporate commercial world and within other sectors such as
sport. We have to be relevant to the people that we serve.
Sally: Yeah, and I totally agree with that. And
I actually sit on a cricket club board myself, interestingly, and
when we were recruiting, it was something that they were very keen
to do to make sure that we were diverse. What do you think firms
can do and can be doing to increase the diversity at board level?
Is there a, you know, do you feel there's anything specific
that we should be doing that perhaps we're not doing
currently?
Kavita: Well, I think a lot of firms, engage in
some great initiatives. But I suppose law firms need to understand
what role they can play, because lawyers make excellent board
members, not necessarily because of their legal or technical
skills, but because of their advanced governance and transaction
management and organisational skills.
And, your senior lawyer will have honed a vast array of commercial
and advisory skills throughout their career. They're generally
articulate, intelligent, not afraid to check and challenge, and
they're able to be impartial and a critical friend. Management
and those skills are honed on the job, as part of a client
relationship and as part of our, our professional, dealings. So, I
believe that lawyers are uniquely placed to go on boards. And
I'd encourage any lawyers thinking about it to start their
board journey perhaps with a not for profit, a charity, or even a
local school board to develop those governance skills and sort of
cut your teeth at that level.
And I'd say you ask the question right, specifically, what can
law firms do? I think law firms can continue to make their training
more holistic, pair lawyers for roles outside of the stroke day
job, and hone skills which could prepare lawyers for the full
trajectory of their career up to non-executive level, because I
think it's mutually beneficial. If our lawyers take places on
boards, at the end of the day, that's beneficial to everyone,
including the law firm.
Sally: Totally, and it really is beneficial, I
couldn't agree more, and I would also really encourage that
kind of opportunity for people to take up. Thinking back now, to
the cultural experiences that we were talking about. We know how
important it is as an international law firm with offices across
Europe, Canada, Middle East, Asia. From your opinion, from your
perspective, what can people do to try and improve, not only they
cross-cultural but also emotional intelligence? Do you have any
real nuggets of information or hints and tips that just from your
own experiences you can provide for us, to provide us with that
understanding of how you gain that cultural and emotional
intelligence?
Kavita: Again, a great question. I think exposure
to different markets and firms, or cross-departmental initiatives
are a great way of fostering cross-cultural relationships.
You've got that lovely melting pot right there. So, it's
about connecting and joining the dots between people so that
knowledge sharing, and those experiences can take place. And
I'd say a simple idea could be establishing a buddy system. So,
comparing individuals from different jurisdictions, different
offices for either informal chats periodically storytelling or just
more of a formal, more mentoring mentorship program. So, there is
that sharing of ideas and awareness that takes place.
One of the things I'd say is be deliberate about marking events
such as Christmas, Diwali, Eid, other faith events. It's great
learning opportunity for people and as is the storytelling that
takes place during, say, weeks like this one. All of it's
beneficial, and I'm sure that members of your firm
internationally will come up with a host of really good ideas to
bring these initiatives forward. And talk about what they would
like to hear and what they'd like to learn.
Sally: Yeah, absolutely. And actually, that that
really ties nicely into, the sort of the final question with
regards to the reason that we're actually here today is because
it's South Asian Heritage Month. And it would be really good to
understand what that month actually means to you?
So, obviously, you've talked about your own, heritage. And it would be really, really interesting to find out from your own perspective, your own personal perspective what that means to you. What does this mean to you?
Kavita: I think things like this are so important. This is South Asian Heritage Month, but there's so many similar things throughout the year that are really important to take time to stop and mark these events because it's a great opportunity to celebrate an individual's identity. And it urges people to take pride and, in their heritage, in their personal narratives. I think it's a real celebration of individuality and urges people to understand that their differences are actually their strengths and it's what makes them special. It gives them the edge. So, I'd say it's also an important opportunity to remind employers to continue to create an environment where every individual can bring their whole authentic self to work. And I really believe that's how you get the best out of people.
So, my advice really to people of South Asian heritage or in
fact any heritage, it would be the same.
I mean, understand that diversity is your real strength and believe
in yourself. Yeah, you have to love what you do and really always
make sure that you're the best prepared person in the room that
goes with that saying, but those additional insights, I think
really will reap benefits and, and provide true success.
Sally: That's fabulous. Thank you so much, Kavita.
Kavita: It's been a pleasure to speak to you, Sally. And thank you so much.
Sally: Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you.
South Asian Heritage Month (18 July - 17 August 2024) aims to commemorate, mark and celebrate South Asian cultures, histories and communities.
To celebrate the month, Head of DE&I and Wellbeing Sally Glarvey sits down with Kavita Singh, General Counsel and Non-Executive Director. Kavita highlights the importance of diversity on boards and for client experience and how we can improve our cross-cultural and emotional intelligence.
Read the original article on GowlingWLG.com
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